WeRide IPO, Polymarket + Perplexity, the Trump Bump and more! | E1992

If they do but one bump of trump they Will become addicted but one bump Trump Of bump Now if you think about the Trump bump And doing Trump bumps what happens is it Rewires your brain it creates a sense of Euphoria yes now it'll create a hangover The next day and you will feel Brutalized but what happens after this Bump is your ratings go up and it's Going to lean your coverage to positive Because you want more Trump bumps and he Brings the bumps you know he comes you Know there's going to be five bumps per You know every half hour right you're Going to be doing 10 bumps an hour it's Pretty intense you know like this is Going to make Keith Richards and Kate Moss jealous like this is a lot of bumps Elton John is going Whoa this weekend startups is brought to You by Google for startups accelerate Your startup Journey with the Google for Startups Cloud program get up to 200k in Google Cloud credits or up to 350k for AI startups plus training and guidance Apply at startups.com twist vanta Compliance and security shouldn't be a Deal breaker for startups to win new Business vanta makes it easy for Companies to get a sock to report fast Twist listeners can get $1,000 off for a Limited time at V.com twist and assembly AI get maximum

Value from voice data with assembly AI Build powerful products and features for Your end users on the industry's leading Speech to text models get 100 free hours To start building at assembly ai.com Twist all right everybody welcome back To this week in startups I'm back Alex As you know I got covid yes pretty Brutal luckily we had a lot of banked Episodes we always banked three or four Episodes and you did a great episode Where you interviewed three members of The Twist 500 the 500 most important Private companies in the world well done Yeah Huntress Sierra and Tobit so a Couple cyber secur companies and one Company that wants to aggregate Essentially media companies to kind of Put their data together and licens that Out to AI really a lot of fun I love Talking to Founders it was actually four Different twist interviews over two Shows because we also had the Gusto chat With Josh Reeves nice he's interesting You know we have a lot of folks on the Show kind of show up you can tell They're caffeinated woo where to you Know fight and kick it up his style is So much more like I'm building for 20 Years we're going to go that's our Direction we're going to roll and so you Almost want to like nudge him into Saying something a little bit spicier But he's like no man my model Works

We're we're a 101 billion dollar company Yeah yeah so Gusto is amazing I mean we I've used it now in of my own companies A couple and just great product you know That whole Space of payroll combined With HR it's just such a great category I can tell you 20 30 years ago when you Started a company it was just a pain in The neck because you have manager HR Realate signing a real estate lease for 4 five years putting down one year of Rent and what's called a letter of Credit all of this equaled about a half Million dollar you know when you were Starting out right in an accounting Department so it was very strange now The idea that you would hire an Accountant inh housee an HR person Inhouse have real estate holdings have Leases it's just all been abstracted and That means more people can start Companies and get to product and focus On product more so it's just great Change just to throw in one more point About that I love going back and reading Books about startups in the 90s because They say things like well we had to Raise a bunch of money to go buy servers And I'm like oh right and then they Debate collocation fees and worry about Their like their their uptime and you Know you never hear of a Founder who's Get gets woken up like 3:00 a.m. to go Fix the servers because Amazon's on it

Or azure's on it you know it would be Interesting to see how many different Expenses that a 1996 internet startup Had that have now been completely Abstracted to the point of being either An API or a managed service half yeah It's it's definitely a half million to a Million dollars per year of operating Spend in dollars from the 90s and 2000s Less so you're correct the first company We had we wanted to do email and we had The Silicon alley daily newsletter mhm This is before there was substack and MailChimp so what we did is we set up a Bunch of qmail servers in the CL Clos it And it was about $40,000 worth of them We got a dedicated T1 that was $155,000 per month but I put all that Together and it was probably and then we Had assis admin my friend Brian Alvi set It all up for us so you talking about $150,000 a year to maintain this Probably between people and costs Etc or More no maybe 200,000 and uh but we said We're going to make 10,000 a week in Advertising that's a half million dollar So we'll break even you know when we get To the 20th week of the year 30th week Of the year everything else could Potentially be profit so it's just Fantastic that you can go faster and and It's it's so cheap like MailChimp cheap Substack free I really think that deep In my my my brain stem that software is

By too cheap by a factor of 10 compared To like the productivity people get out Of it compar old costs I mean if you Were to just look at the power of email We use beehive uh now for the twist 500 Which used to be called the ticker and We use Koda for the database and if you Were to do this in another era you know It would have been a qu million dollar In you know software developers to build That platform or in the client server Era you know $50,000 to buy the server Software and you would sign a 5-year Deal so $ million doll or five years and Now you know you're talk about hundreds Of dollars and even you know MailChimp I Loved MailChimp we used it for a long Time but you know for newsletters which Are free beehive became and suback Became better options I think for for People because they're free and free is A pretty good price or close to free you Know essentially free even the paid Version of pive or what you pay in 10% Of your you know paid Subs to suback It's such an affordable fee that more People will use those products therefore They make up for it in volume so good on Technology yeah okay so I we didn't mean To start here we have other stuff that We actually have notes on and stuff we Haven't talked in two weeks so you had a Nice break I take it you had a little Vacation I did I went up to uh North

Massachusetts to a lake and a cabin and A golf cart my first time ever with a Golf cart nice it's just an adult goart It's amazing it would so much F my Daughter loved it and it was just a Blast I now have decided that we need to Redraw All American Cities strip out all The roads replace them all with golf Cart tracks and we should all just be Cruising with one foot out the you know Out the side at like 11 miles an hour we Drinking coffee or Margarita it's great I I um I I love a certain speech and the Speed I love is somewhere between 15 and 30 mph uh this is what an electric Bicycle goes when I had my vesa New York You know was topped off at 35 I had a Little small one um and I do like that I I like that speed for cruising because You can take things in you get where You're going You're not like Zip Zip Zipping but you're kind of zipping and It's a nice feeling I I'm a fan of the That middle that midp speed yeah no I'm With you on this this is is why I think When you're on the highway going 75 it's So boring because you can't actually Focus on anything so you see nothing but If you're going 15 or 20 you can see Every single squirrel rabbit dog you Know it's all it's with you so what We're saying friends is go out there and Touch grass but on the show today lots Of good stuff lots of good stuff Jason's

Unified media strategy SL the Trump bump Then we rides IPO poly market and Perplexity everyone's two hottest Companies out there today about yeah a Bunch of money going to Europe and Venture capital I don't know how to Intro this other than saying that Something happened last night that a Great many people tuned into and uh yeah You had a thought or two about it well Uh Elon did an interesting uh Conversation with Trump and he pitched It as a conversation as opposed to an Interview uh which I think is similar to What we do on Allin as well which is It's a conversation as opposed to an Interview where one person is preparing Questions and and knocking the other Person off face kind of thing but they Went for 2 hours there was a lot of like Um hand ringing and uh Prognostication Afterwards and people are wondering why There was such a strong reaction to it Okay I'm sure you have feelings you and I are both media guys um and Tech guys So we have a lot of opinions on these Things I just want to point out you know What I've experienced firsthand with Trump and that I've been talking about For a couple years which is the Trump Bump I believe anybody who has a media Property if they do but one bump of Trump they will become addicted but one

Bum Trump of bump Now if you think about the Trump bump And doing Trump bumps what happens is it Rewires your brain it creates a sense of Euphoria yes now it'll create a hangover The next day and you will feel Brutalized but what happens after this Bump is your rating SC so when we had Trump on Allin you can just look at it Statistically I think it probably added 50,000 Subs in other words 10% more subs To the YouTube channel those episodes Went straight to the top and you can see The Trump bump for weeks afterwards Where people are still coming back to That episode it you know it kind of Lingers I think it's probably got a Million or 2 million uh views on YouTube Alone so then your mind as a person with A media property is well when can we Have Trump on again and this is the uh Yeah there's the Trump interview I don't Know what does it say there in terms of How many million views okay 3.1 million Views and it's a month old the average All-in episode I think on YouTube just The YouTube portion is for 5 600,000 so It's roughly five times all right Everybody you know being at a startup is A team sport you're not going to get There alone man you got your Founders You got the early team members of course Investors most importantly that first Couple of customers right and you all

Work together to get your company off The ground and I have great news for for You and your team Google for startups Cloud program is now a partner here at This weekend startups and listen you all Just want to know the number here's the Number 200,000 350,000 these are the two numbers what Are these two numbers you're going to Get $200,000 in Google Cloud credits and If you're an AI startup you can get up To $350,000 Google is serious Google for Startups Cloud program is here on this Week in startups just letting you know They are are serious about helping your Startup the number is the number okay And there's two great numbers here 90% Of generative AI unicorns choose Google Cloud we all know that they do a great Job so here's your call to action you Need to get these credits you need to Start building you're going to find out Everything about this amazing program Google startup Cloud program at Startups.com twist okay very simple hit The rewind key bookmark this write it Down I want you to sign up right now Pause the podcast because these are Big Numbers folks they really want to Support you I don't know how long They're going to do this for so Startups.com twist all right let's get Back to this amazing program so when you

See everybody doing this there's two Ways to go you can either if you have an Avenue to engage Trump like Fox does or Tucker Carlson with his new independent Show Megan Kelly if you can get him You're going to be nice to him you're Going to be engaging with him and it's Going to to lean your coverage to Positive because you want more Trump Bumps and he brings the bumps you know He comes you know there's going to be Five bumps per you know every half hour Right you're going to be doing 10 bumps An hour it's pretty intense you know Like this is going to make Keith Richards and Kate Moss jealous like this Is a lot of bumps Elton John is going Whoa uh now you go on the other side You're Rachel mat you're anti-trump you Consider him a threat to democracy Whatever on the other side of the Spectrum you can't get him on your Program obviously he not going to sit in All likelihood maybe one out of 100 Times but you're going to get excited to You know if you write something critical Boom all of a sudden your ratings go up Now MSNBC Fox would be the two perfect Examples or maybe New York Times and uh Wall Street Journal but I believe the Media is so obsessed with Trump bumps They're so addicted to the Trump bumps That there is a unconscious emergent Behavior which is he FS so much of the

Room and you get so many ratings you get Paid Subs on the New York Times Guardian In Washington Post remember they were Actually saying if you want more Coverage of Trump's crimes like Literally that was their pitch subscribe Help us cover Trump's crimes more like Literally was in the in the marketing so I think both groups are going to be Responsible if he does get elected again For playing a big part in this one group For engaging him the other group for Attacking anyway um it's an under report Story I think and that's a lot of what Happened last night because the media Business is a little bit threatened by The fact that sources are you know Giving interviews maybe not to Mainstream media and going around it to More direct you know the direct aspect Of it it's a little threatening but I Think it's the bumps that's the major Issue what is your take on it so the Last thing you said I a lot of people View the media world to their own Personal lens uh which is kind of Grievance forward um that the media Hates substack because blah blah blah BL Blah media hates first of all the media Is the least cohesive coordinated thing Ever so there is no media right um the Other thing though is I I think a lot of What you're saying about the Trump bump Is correct but I think it's it's more of

An example of something that's a bit Broader and more common which is the Sheer power of celebrity and I would say That the Trump BM that you're describing Is similar to coverage of Taylor Swift For example sure um I think ALS coverage Of Elon himself if you put Elon Musk in A headline you will get a lot more People paying attention to you and this Becomes a a thing that the media could Better ignore or not Pander to if they Were in better Financial Straits but Right now with social media no longer Being an effective driver of traffic and Attention everyone's fighting for the Same four boxes in a Google search Window yeah and so if all the people in The world are searching for musk Trump Or iPhone 17 or I don't know musk Tesla Or pick your thing or Taylor concert Then you almost can't not do some of That because that's where the the People's attention is is going so I put The Trump bump in under that kind of Like broader umbrella sure there is an Example though to your point about People joking about um wanting Trump to Come back to be reelected because it'll Help them and the only example I can Find of this was Axel Springer's CEO a Couple years back he said this and then He was like oh I was kidding I was Kidding D and everyone was like we know You guys we know you actually want him

Back because it would be good for your Business but as a last note the average Journalist is I think concerned about Having something akin to stable Employment much more so than setting Media policy on this level but I I'll Cop to it I if four people got into Trouble and three of them were well Known and one of them was not I know Which one I'm putting at the end of the Headline because I would like people to Read my story which is clicks but I Think that's become a relatively cheap And low rent attack of trying to cover Things that people care about and I Think that the media should do a Combination of things people care about And also things that they don't care About yet and that's why I read The Economist totally well said yeah totally Well said and I think you know the you Know a lot of things in life are Financial it's resource based and when You have competition Like the media does now and you know It's it's it's a it's death by a Thousand podcasts and substacks and Beehives and you know Twitter handles And Tik Tok you know personalities you Know it's literally Death By A Thousand Cuts just like the networks experience When cable came out and that is at the Core of this they they can't afford to Keep the lights on in many cases that's

Why Independent Media is doing so well Because if you do happen to find your Niche in Independent Media and keep your Cost structure low like you know this Week in startups has nine eight Employees I think three in sales five in Production me and you I think it's nine Of us yeah you know it's it's a pretty Big team nine people but it's not 900 You know it's not 500 mil de feed Onethird sales and 25% producers I mean That I mean that's literally like Bringing money in keeping everything Going getting it edited getting and two I mean honestly I think could be more Boot trapped right I think you the least Important parts of the show to be Totally honest because without the other People no show happens I want to talk About the actual interview though I Tuned in for a little bit yeah I heard Some of it yeah what do you think well I'm just or the conversation remember It's not an interview it's conversation Okay so depending on your framing yeah I Just want to say that elon's level of Patience was greater than I expected I Tuned in during the nuclear power Climate change thing and and and the Former president said something along I'm going to paraphrase gently here that The sea levels is only going to rise by An eighth of an inch in 400 years which Is wrong by a factor of I don't know 50

Or something Faral and musk in his infinite patience Kept dragging him back to nuclear power Like no nuclear power is good Trump's Like well I I heard that Fukushima is Actually now on Mars and Elon was like I It's not as bad as you think and I he Kept just yeah it was it was very Impatient by him I think you know Elon Is not obviously an interviewer by trade But you know is a friend of mine and We've had countless conversations he's a Great conversationalist and I think when You're interviewing the president and Specifically that President right 45 Having also had uh the privilege of Doing it uh one and only President I Probably will ever interview but you Never know I haven't really tried he is Got a Playbook like a comedian right and His one of his great skills is his Ability with these anecdotes and comedy And a little bit of timing is like a Routine he got it from Howard Stern Actually which was like a major media Influence in the 80s and 90s and into The 2000s in New York City I was there For it I grew up on Stern Trump was a Regular on Stern and Trump loved Stern Like at his wedding type level of love For him yeah you know was really into Him and there's a famous moment inside Of the movie private parts where Pig Vomit uh who he named as producer played

By Paul Gatti is like what's going on And he's like the ratings are up he's Like how could the ratings be up what Are they saying they're like well the People who love them listen for 70 Minutes on average and you know the Average commutes 40 and and he's like Why why do they listen he's like well Number one reason given want to see what He's going to say next yeah and he's Like okay tell me about the people who Don't listen he's like yeah they listen For 95 minutes he's like what they Listen for 25 minutes longer it's like Yeah she like well why do they listen He's like number one reason given they Want to see what he's going to say next Right Trump took that Playbook and it is Why people listen what will he say next All right Founders do you want to sell To bigger customers of course you do you Want to get that ACV trending up up up And to the right average customer value And you want to lower your turn of Course and if you want to get to Major Buyers you're going to need to clear Those compliance checks that means you Have to have your sock to sorted out What's stck 2 it's just a standard and It ensures that companies keep customer Data safe if you aren in sock 2 Compliant you're not going to get the Big deals but vanta makes it so easy to Get and renew your sock to compliance on

Average vanta customers are compliant in Just two to four weeks and without vanta It's going to take months vanta can also Automate compliance for gdpr Hippa you Know and all these other acronyms that Are boring and tedious and it's hard Work and that's why you get a partner Like vanta so it's easy peasy lemon Squeezy you want to get the big customer You got to have these acronyms all Dialed in and they're going to save you Hundreds of hours of work and they going To save you like 85% on your compliance Cost it's that simple and vanta is such A big supporter of this program that They're going to give you $1,000 off at V.com twist that's vent.com twist for $1,000 off your sock too and it is Effective because I was watching um Political Twitter I was also taking care Of uh the baby my my wife had a thing so I was solo um carrying for AO sleep Schedule but uh he called Gavin Nome Gavin nuum and that that is s exactly That is such a a tetty Small-minded Unprecedent hilarious thing that every Everyone loved the flip side though is He does have an exposure problem because He's been going out there on the The Campaign Trail for so long now yeah when I tune in I I kind it's almost like You're going to like see the same comedy Set for the third time it gets a little

Flat you know what if you if you do see A comedian do their stick or and I see This with old people old people kind of Run out of life experiences so they tell The same 17 stories you you go see your Grandfather and he like oh you know did I tell you about the fire that I rent to And I'm like yeah yeah Grandpa and he's Like let me tell you we were there he Doesn't even hear you say that you heard The story 17 going my my dad is also in His 70s and I have heard the story of How they redid their cherry cabinets in Their kitchen probably four times I'm Probably going to get it four more times What I do like about that though is that It was something new it was casual um And you you have to ask Trump two or Three times to get through his shtick His bit his anecdote whatever it is and And I did that successfully I think Twice in the interview and you know I Was I only have 15 minutes of the 60 Minutes we had with him or something Yeah yeah yeah you know but you saw when I got him to I nailed on down on Abortion and I nailed him down on Immigration and then I was going to go January 6 but we ran out of time Y and I I was firing off the last couple of Questions trying to get him in and you Know I I would have got him on January 6 As well but you have to ask him three Followup questions and Elon did that

Last night and I I didn't talk to Elon About techniques or anything but he he Did a very good job of bringing him back And kind of but spaces is peculiar Because you also don't see the person in The reaction in a normal conversation we Know when we're going to move on to the Next thing and because you know the Person's like okay got it you know you You have all kinds of techniques as an Interviewer to um you know move the Conversation forward in other words to Interrupt the person to stop them and You'll hear me on Allin when I have to Deal with three my three Partners who Are you know like they all want to talk For five minutes each and if they all Talk for five minutes each and now we Got three five minute monologues and it Really is a terrible experience for the Audience when people do that so I Interrupt and I try to move the Conversation get the ball to move around So one person is not not Carmelo Anthony You know the ball and they dribble the Ball for 21 of the 24 second shot clock Which is just not good basketball you Want I understood that reference so you Know on the margin some people will get Mad at me because they're Sachs fans and I interrupt the Sachs or they're Freeberg fans and sure but when they get To two three four minutes you know like Okay we should move the ball here there

Was a little bit of that going on which Is very hard spaces is a little bit like A CB and you don't see the person so You're like okay uh tell me about your Thoughts on the border over but people Don't say over and so you you could kind Of step on each other a little bit with That kind of talk radio format yeah What's great about it is you can pop it Up it's freewheeling the limitation of It is you don't have visual cues and it Has a little bit of a CB radio and I Don't think either party were using Headsets so I got to talk to Elon that Really what it has to be optimized for Headsets as much as people don't like to Wear headphones or whatever it would Really help if they put in earpieces or Had a stick microphone of some type uh But anyway those are technical issues Overall go in your child's room find an IPhone case that's just laying there Somewhere find the headphones that they Never took out cuz they want to be they Want to be cool and have airpods plug Those suckers in the old school ones It's fore and it's actually B+ audio Quality and it's the cheapest and best Way to Simply go from talking to your Phone like this which I saw Trump doing Pictures of him doing this space and I Wanted to be like dude come it's the Worst it's the worst for AV quality I When I saw that I fringed I was like oh

My God he's on an open air microphone in A you know giant room yes that's going To create distortions and that's why I Think it sounded a little bit like he Had a lisp did you notice that and People were talking about this lisp Thing and I was trying to figure out is This like Dentures a lisp or a little Echoey in the room or some combination Of it I I I I never got the definitive Yeah if Trump drank I would have said he Had a scotch or two but he doesn't drink So it wasn't that he doesn't drink so it Wasn't a he it does sound a little bit Like that as well like as if you were on Drunk History and just a little bit just A little like 5% if it sounds like me After I've been to the dentist and They've numbed part of my face so I'm I'm going to put a dollar on dentures Which is a perfectly reasonable thing to Have if you were elderly I'm not too Judging um but also if you are going to Go on a space with a million people and The richest man in the world and you're Trying to run for the biggest office in The world but on some damn headphones And fix your teeth like I mean come on Uh if that was what it was but I didn't I I thought maybe I was hearing things Or was my phone connection and then I Saw the headlines and there was a large Number of headlines that mentioned it as Well so anyway uh overall there's a lot

Of other news today you know where do You want to go in terms of the big news I I'm really fascinated with Self-driving and there's some EV company You and I love public companies I'm Fascinated with the Tipping story I'm Fascinated with Uber's earnings and you Know what's going on at self-driving Where do you want to go today we're Doing We R um we I never heard of this Company what is this well Jason okay so Jason text me yesterday he's like hey Who the hell's we ride why are they Going public what do we know about them And I was like well I have the F1 filing Up I haven't read it so I I I promise I Go through it and take a look for us we Rite it turns out is a unicorn Chinese Self-driving company raised 1.1 billion $5 billion valuation is going public in The US this week we haven't seen a lot Of IPOs Jason we've been struggling Suffering from a lock of of filines and Kind of good listing so we care a lot And the company in this case is going to Be raising a lot of money the actual IPO Itself is going to be about 100 110 Million depending on underwriting shares And so forth as you can see on the Screen they do quite a lot of different Autonomous driving stuff from Robo taxis Up to Robo street sweepers which love it I yeah as long as they don't run over my Dog I don't know yeah no no running over

Dogs that would be bad yes but also There's a concurrent Place placement of Like 340 380 so this is going to be a Serious offering in terms of capital Race okay so we've never heard of this Company this leads into my VAR about Ride sharing now I'm obviously uh still A big shareholder at Uber and believe in The company I'm obviously a big Tesla Fan I don't own shares in Tesla full Disclosure very complicated for me if Your friend is CEO of that company and You have shares you could I understand You know get dragged into all kinds of Craziness uh so I just it's not that I Don't believe in the company but you own Enough Teslas that everyone knows you Like them I have Four that's the Most two collectors edition that I don't Drive number 16 of the Roadster number One of the signature Model S is the First Model S ever available to the Public and then I have a y and an X and I've had the Y and the X since they both Came out so they're very old when you do Your will though can you leave me the Roadster the the the the first one That's that's okay I just have to let me Just change the whe because I have I Gave that to my oldest daughter but I'll Just switch that over to Alex got it Yeah thank you her name that's the one That's based on the Lotus ex yeah it's

The orange one it's amazing um putting All that aside there's a big question You know wh Mo's impact on Uber and Lyft Tesla having the robo taxi event I think In October or November they pushed it Back two months my theory has always Been there's going to be five players to Pick a number that I think figure all This out at the same time and by same Time I mean within an 18-month window in Other words okay they all get there in The same window to exploit the Opportunity right if you if you get There 3 four years after wh Mo maybe You're going to be too far behind but if You get there in the same 18 months of Wh Mo I think you're good and weo is There right and weo has been there for Maybe a year of like really good solid No crashes thank God nobody's died not No major you know except for the hippies In San Francisco being like it blocked Uh you know an emergency vehicle and you Look and it's like it didn't block the Emergency vle anyway I see you Like no no I AG I agree with you on the hippies I I grew Up in Oregon I I am familiar with the Hippies you can smell them coming oh my Lord podcasts audio books virtual Meetings endless videos we're producing And consuming more voice data than we Ever have and if your startup is Building a product that uses voice data

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That's an interesting we're gonna move On now from that com reductionist we'll Take it I S like some people are trying To bring the r word back ignore my Friend here just ignore you don't need To you don't need to bring the r word Back reduction yes they are they are Slow Downer ists if you will yes they're Desel desels you know and so I believe This uh weide which is an obvious weo Knockoff it looks exactly like the weo It's got the same exact design this is Proof positive I think that this Technology is going to be commoditized At a very very fast rate yes and I was Driving my Tesla in Austin I shipped it To Austin and I was doing some 30 to 45 Minute ride so I said okay you know let Me just see if I can get the whole way There yeah the pickup and the drop off Is super challenged when you're not in a Container space like San Francisco or City because driveways parking lots like These things are hard to navigate you Know so and and people have gates at Their houses or you're getting to the Airport it's it's super complicated so I Think self- driving's got a lot of work To do I won't call it the last mile I'll Call it the last 100 yards yeah the 100 Yard problem is real putting that aside I would say one intervention and I'm on The 123 software so I got to get 124 and Five I don't know why I'm not upgraded

Yet but I think you watching the things Online it seems like you're G to have One or two interventions every hour or Something which means they're getting Very close yeah um so then it becomes a Deployment problem and then if five People do get there already Uber did a Deal for 100,000 byd electric vehicles With self-driving 100,000 of them like Already and now byd might have big Tariffs coming into the us but around The world globally they don't have that So you know you going have byd wh weo Already has to deal with Uber I don't Know if Cruz is going to get back into It you have this company uh that we just Found out about that's a knockoff Company and there could be maybe 7 to 10 People who get there and then whoever Wants to win is either going to have to Build an at scale competitor to Uber Andy and door Dash or sell to Door Dash Uber and lift I think half of them are Going to do the ladder which means the Real impact we're going to see Alex is Going to be the number of rides in ride Sharing autonomous and regular is going To boom and the idea owning a car is Going to become kind of silly yes like Uh and right now I think the total Number of rides in the United States I'd Say the ones that are done by Uber or Lift versus private citizens you know or Other means in cars it's probably one or

Two% yeah I was going to say one to 100 You know but I mean one to 100 yeah once You have self-driving even if it just Doubles it that takes us to two out of 100 so there's going to be a couple of Fun tipping points one is when is the Majority of Uber's domestic run rides Done autonomously versus with a human Driver and then when is uh self-driving The majority of all rides in the US that Is going to be much longer but both are Things I'm very excited about you nailed It though the point about uh these Companies are is when can they build out A fleet that uses their technology to Really try to capture a bunch of the Market before someone else does so we Rde is not a great company financially They actually had uh less revenues last Year than in the year before and in the First half of this year they shrank Again so why is everyone piling in to Give them you know5 $600 million in this IPO I think it's because they want to Build out their massive Robo taxi Fleet I think this IPO is literally a Fundraise to put the cars on the road Because their Tech goes from L2 level Two self-driving 2 level four which in Theory actually gets Beyond even Occasional human intervention now that's What their prospectus says I not Endorsing that but that's the claim so You you take an L4 level company that

Has self-driving revenues but sorry Autonomous robotaxi revenues that are Minimal put a pile of capital behind it To me it smells like a buildout and That's why I think they're going to try To win but as we've discussed the Chinese market is relatively Self-contained so you know wayo in the US Tesla in the US Bru in the US Jason I'm so excited it's gonna be so much fun Uh and you know right now the number of People dying in car accidents 30 40,000 A year has stayed static so you wonder Why is that staying static I when people Are drinking and driving less turns out Still a ton of people drinking driving There's also distracted driving um and So distracted driving I think is keeping Our death toll High while drinking and Driving might have gone down a bit Because people who are drunk are like You know what unless I'm Justin Timberlake and I'm really smashed in the Hamptons I'm going to call an Uber you Know Justin Timberlake suffering I don't Think he can afford an Uber at this Point he would much rather get pulled Over by the cops and get arrested and Lose his license and a massive PR thing Then God forbid one of his friends pulls Him aside and says hey dummy right no Need to kill anybody in your car you There's this new Uber thing and lift you Can just press a button y or you're just

In freaking Timberlake anybody at the Club will drive you home in your own car And then they'll take an Uber and you Take a selfie with them wake up dude Wake up dude well I mean the other side Of that is once you reach a level of Fame and success and wealth pick a Category or power you you do begin to Think that you are in fact different and Different rules apply and I think Keeping your head is the hardest part of That and Justin tuber has been a a a Name for what feels like my entire life Well he screwed up he did give us a good Meme though with the this is going to Ruin the tour what Tour the World Tour I've seen that repeated on the internet I really enjoyed that just put some Numbers on it Federal Highway Administration says Americans take over A billion trips a day in a cars 400 Billion trips annually and uh Uber Reported $7.6 billion trips this is 2022 Data so it's much higher but anyway uh About two billion rides in the US a Couple years ago so maybe they're at Three or four billion rides in the US Which is exactly 1% you nailed it Alex So I mean you and I are both very close It just it's funny to me because I bet You for some people it's 0000000000 and For some people it's 85% so there There's a class of folks out there who Don't like driving like myself who will

Take an Uber when it's raining because I'm not going to walk or my wife's gone Or whatever and I bet you know I for me I I will go more places so this is not Just a replacement it's also it's going To boost the total Tam for Uber so I Guess if Uber Nails the S drives in use Case this feels like a 2014 conversation Uh if Uber Nails a self-driving use case Man their Market's huge yeah just Astoundingly large 2007 I think is when That DARPA you know uh self-driving Contest was kind of going on and and Everybody was sort of laughing about the Cars driving off the side of the road And we're here 15 years later and I just Took a ride from like the lake in a and Lake Travis to the airport with one Intervention and now the pickup and the Drop off would not have worked in either Of these cases so the last 100 yards Have to be solved which I think is going To be Brute Force like okay this is how This airport works exactly what Uber Wand up doing they had to like Define Each airport manually send somebody There take pictures of things explain to You where you go kind of thing on Highways it I wish people were forced to Use level two on all highways I think Level two which is the car takes over Two functions for you should be required On highways um which is Lane assist it Keeps you in your lane and then adaptive

Cruise control which means it doesn't Let you plow into the person in front of You those two things I don't know why Those aren't by default turned on in all Cars so Jason do you ever drive a manual Transmission sure love it I learned to Drive on uh Oregon Logging roads in my Dad's F250 and you know great car to Learn to drive on because it had enough Torque that you really couldn't kill it And so you could really learn to shift On it is great uh my dad will probably Never stop driving stick and so when I Think about L2 and how just obvious it Is for you and I that everyone should Have this I think we just got to keep in Mind that that car culture is so core to The identity of so many folks that they Just not going to let go of it like it Doesn't matter to me I don't derive any Of my self worth from it but I'm just One person so I'm I'm sythetic to the Other side of that but you're correct um But I'm going to move us along talk About two of your favorite things Generation back And also the world of AI because poly Market and perplexity are teaming up and Did you know Mr ganis yes that uh poly Market is built on ethereum I did not Know that so people are placing real Money bets on this prediction Market M On you know is Biden going to drop out Or is JD Vance going to get replaced or

Who's going to be the VP pick all these Kind of real world events politics comes To by now but other things can come up Like sports and stuff stock markets and All kinds of other prop bets but they Use ethereum as The Ledger is what You're saying so this was news to me I Was prepping some notes on perplexity The AI search engine poly Market the Prediction Market they have a Partnership so I was just digging in and I saw that they're based on ethereum so I went to Dune which is the blockchain Analytics service that we all know and Use and I pulled a graph of how much People are using poly Market over time And then also uh the total transaction Volume that's flowing through it this is The Poly Market daily volume chart but Jason Isn't it cool to see a startup that's Raised a bunch of money and have public Data of how it's doing this is the Coolest thing because now I can see the Inside information and as you can tell Doing quite well lately uh total volume Is has absolutely gone through the roof And if you look at daily active Traders It's also showing quite a lot of just Very strong performance amazing I love It yeah it's not quite a hockey stick But it's getting close um I think this Is really interesting I love the idea of People placing bets they'll get things

Wrong you know people thought Shapiro Was going to be the VP candidate not um Walls yes so why well it turns out like It's a very personal pick that an Individual made it's like somebody Picking what dessert they want to have Like this could be the best dessert at The restaurant but the person might have A preference for you know J Su over the Sorbet exactly you know everybody could Say like hey this sorbet they're known For it it's world class they they buy Their terisu from the bakery down the Street it's it's mid doesn't matter KLA Harris wants to have the the ter she's Going to have it so that was a perfect Learning moment for the markets which is Even though this person is the consensus This is a choice that is not based on The consensus or what makes the most Sense necessarily what makes the most Sense for an individual and so that's Good to learn and this is the generation Bet concept which uh I'll debut here for The first time uh you helped me I gave a A talk at KPMG last week and uh was in Park City they asked me to do it I don't Do a lot of these folks I get paid a ton Of money to do them but I only do them For friends like once or twice a year But I asked Alex to help me out on it Thank you for the help and one of the Themes um you know that we've been Working on here on the show static team

Size where teams stay the same size we Talked about that a whole bunch we we're Trying to codify them one of the ones I Want to codify here is Generation like Generation X or Generation Y generation Bet what is Gen bet it's the people who Grew up on Robin Hood buying crypto nfts And prediction markets and price picks You know and um what's the other one That's Draft Kings and Sport betting and All this the this group of individuals And I was interacting with some people In the audience this is like serious People 200 really senior executive like CEO VC leaders of public companies all Kinds of stuff and I said listen how Many of you have a child who who is Wagering a bunch they're in their 20s or 30s and you're a little bit concerned About their stock trading options Trading NF trading crypto trading sports Betting or prediction markets man a lot Of people in the room came up so I I did Like a little I did a little audience Work and I was Sor this one woman and I Said well why are you concerned and she Said well you know it's like he's really Into it and I said is he up or down said Well he was down but now he's way up and I said Okay what you've experienced with your 27 year old or something is this Individual is now a financial like it It's almost like they went to World War

II and they came back as vets this is a Financial vet new like they have Scar Tissue they have trauma they have PTSD They bet on the the Jets or the Nets or Some horrible sports franchise they Bought you know nfts that went to zero This is what makes a great investor Later in life the people who become Great poker players are the ones who Examine their play and have made stupid Plays and and are grinding their teeth At night staring at the ceiling saying Why did I shove it all in with my set When there were four hearts on the board I overvalued my set it's obvious when a Four-handed hand or three-handed Hand have a heart yeah somebody's got That flush you bet into a textured board Because you got you know two attach to Your set of sevens like dummy that's Generation back and th this group when They become 50 years old in 20 years Maron they're going to be able to place Bets and wagers and Investments and I I Don't know what percentage of the Population it is who does let's say Three or more of these things like they Do crypto stocks and prediction markets They do prediction market stocks and Sports somebody who does I would say Three of the four that we've outlined Here you you will have a brain designed Place bets you'll be in other words Should be a venture capitals or

Entrepreneur yes what do you and I'm Just going to throw in a comma because Some folks don't learn and they don't Turn it into a a skill and they end up Not well broke and then also like Gambling addictions not a joke that said In the same way that I even i a a Recovering alcoholic don't want to ban Everyone else from drinking I think we Can discuss the harms and the benefits In the same sentence without being um Contradictory so I agree with you at the Same time if you do find yourself Sports Sping away your entire check help get Some friends go to a meeting take care Of yourself but I do think though that The financialization of everything is Changing culture and it's also I think Changing uh or it's being changed by People who are younger at the lower Socio economic strata who don't see a Way to traditionally grind their way up And are looking for a way to Shortcircuit things a quick well I mean I don't want to be dismissive of it Because you know if if you're yeah yeah If you're a Trader and you get a 10 Bagger you know are you saying that's a Quick fix to your career nah but I think People just look at the prices of houses That have gone up what 50% in the last Like 5 years whatever it is y and They're like well my paycheck's going by 4% I'm getting owned by inflation

There's no way I'm going to grind my Student loans out and then grind up a Deposit then grind out a house so I'm Going to go buy a what's what nfts are Cool these days do we still like punks Punks crypto punks I think they're all Going to zeros oh um well uh fine I'm Gon to bet I'm going to bet on Tim Walls Being the next you know Democratic VP Candidate or whatever it is and I'm Going to you know lay it out there and Hopefully get a away forward people used To make fun of people who are poor Betting on the lottery but if you go Back to Colin Pal's autobiography and His parents discussion of their I think Lottery went that let them buy a house Yeah it was a way to essentially have an Option on a different future that was Very different from their trory and I I I I'm I I I hear it I get it it makes Sense to me I do it well and also this Kind of thinking leads people and and You're right listen some people are Going to get addicted they're going to Do stupid things and the risk of Ruin And you know if you do it with the wrong Individuals you could wind up you know With your legs Broken uh it's not good right and so People can take it too far but you know I think this type of financial literacy Is leading people to discover really Interesting things and um I think there

Is another and I don't know if we've Given it a name yet but I think opting Out of capitalism um opt out capitalism Opt out I need to come up with a name For this but it's basically indiv idual Opting out of capitalism or hijacking or Hacking capitalism hacking capitalism Hack cap okay ha cap yes so hack capping Is like looking at capitalism looking at This ecosystem and saying well you know How do I break out of the Matrix and one Of the most interesting one is called Fire it's an acronym it stands for Financial Independence retire early it's A movement defined by people as you can See here on Investopedia really good Side for technical definitions of um Final yeah they do a good job um Essentially what you want to do is uh Save up some multiple of the money you Have and the fire number is 25 times Annual expenses so let's say you're Living off of 10K a month that's aund Let's say it's 100,000 a year 8K a month Something like that 8K a month 100,000 a Year 25 times that annual expense um you Know is 2.5 million um now you can Retire comfortably off that if you Withdraw 3 to 4% during that time so Let's just take a million dollar as a Number a million dollars as a number if You took 4% of your principal out every Year and you made 7% in the market you'd Still be topping off like 3% on the

Average year but you'll be taking out Four so your million goes down by 40K But it goes up 30k or in a good year it Might go up 10% bad year you might you Know make nothing in the market so it Just goes down that 4% right you go from A million to 960 but you will then taper Off after some number of years with you Know a little bit of money maybe to give To your kids and or to donate to charity But essentially get to a certain number It's a million to two million for most People uh living not in a major city of With Private School uh and um this kind Of like financial literacy is to me Indicative of gen bet and hacking Capitalism yeah yeah I'm I'm a big fan Of the fire Community there's also lean Fire people want to do a lower number There's fat fire for people like to have A larger total asset I'm in I'm team fat Fire oh dude me too I'm I'm team five Fired because it turns out that I spent $6 on a croissant this morning and uh it Chocolate or just regular no it's plain But the you squeezing the butter came Out my daughter kept coming up from the Slide at the park we were at and like Stealing I'm like honey this is my this Is my breakfast you can't she's like M M M sorry you got yeah you're going to Have to learn that you got to double Down and you know these kids will'll Just keep eat L for two croissants I

Mean dude I'm going to go broke my it's So good though let it sink in though $6 Quason I mean is like was peasant food I Mean I know it's a stick of butter but I Mean it cost used to be food for Prisoners and then now do you know what I pay for a lobster roll for my wife Like $30 I was about to say in New England $30 in New Yorker or La 40 or 50 No yeah I went to New England Lobster Company in Sano and it used to be like I Remember when it was like in high 20s Yeah then it was in the 30s I went the Last time was like 42 bucks or something I was like whoa so so $40 for seab buug Slathered in cow fat wrapped in a mid Mid roll like I mean it's just not makes No sense we we've lost the script oh but You're right there's lean fire fat fire And then there's also half fire so I Think like really interesting one is you Could have a substack let's say your Substack makes 50k a year and you have a Million okay you have the 50k coming in You pay some taxes you got 35k Plus you got 4% off the million that's 4 40 now you had 75k so people are and Then that keeps your brain kind of Active so you're working 2 hours a day Three hours a day on your substack three Hours on your substack you make some Little bit of money and so I encourage People to start thinking about this Because I think if capitalism is

Cutthroat the way it is and employees Are dispensable and employees are not Loyal then you have to protect yourself And I think gen bet plus hacking Capitalism uh and this fire movement and Some of these other things living off Grid being a homesteader uh you know and Having your own chickens and eggs and And removing expenses like I think this Is a natural reaction to capitalism Moving into its next phase which I think Is going to be a level of efficiency in Capitalism that's going to be disturbing To experience for people who participate In it on all sides where we're seeing This in a lot of places like there was The idea of lying flat in China there's Also the the the use of the phrase Garbage time from the NBA that's being Used in China to describe the garbage Years people who are just thinking There's not a a upside to grinding for 20 years like they're they won't be able To make a better you know space for Their children to do better than they Did and I think a lot of the things We're describing are actually pretty Anti-b birth rate now that I think about It because if you're trying to structure Your your your life to to not need more You're not having children and you know You were talking about you know part Part part-time f And I was like oh I could have done that

Now yeah if I didn't have a second child Yeah so you should be really glad that I'm having two because my second child Is has brought us together in uh Absolutely you need this job I do need This job because that's actually three More years of Nanny and that's like 12 More years of private school oh go yeah It's something to consider I'm bringing This back so this started off with poly Market and perplexity teamed up just Quickly wrapping this up poly Market has Raised $74 million perplexity is raised 65 million it's a billion dollar company And the thing that I wanted to throw out There for people who are tracking the AI Startups and I guess the Gen bet Startups I think we'll just call them That is the amount of deals they're Doing so in the last couple months just This year Arc and perplexity January SK Telecom and perplexity February Perplexity and its work with nonprofits June perplexity and publisher deals July Uber and perplexity August and then also This year poly Market Plus substack Polym Market plus Moon pay and then most Recently polym Market Plus perplexity These companies are wheeling and dealing For distribution and I think just Generally build mind share I think it's Brilliant I don't know if they're going To become the next $10 billion companies But I do like the pace at which they're

Shipping and the pace at which they're They're signing contracts with other Companies I think it's just smart yeah I Think perplexity has got a serious Problem um I think um I don't know if You saw but chat chbt open AI open AI Has a perplexity killer they're playing With and they're going to have their own Search engine and I know that's a big Part of Sam maltman's plan historically Because he was really enamored by what I Did with Mahalo he always talked to me About it like he was really into search Engines like anybody in because if you Think about the total amount of search Revenue like a point of search revenue Is probably worth1 billion do right now In market cap right oh more yeah so if You take Google's total market cap and They have 90% search share 90% of their Market cap equals 90% of search maybe you take out a Couple of points for YouTube and other Things but essentially 80% of their Market cap is 80 is 90% of the value of Of search so you just add 10% onto that And you you get kind of what search Market cap is worth uh so 1.6 trillion Divided by my my mic stupid microphone's In the way of my keyboard because I Don't us need it for this I'm just gonna Wolf from all for this but your point You know what your point stands it's an Incredibly valuable thing perplexity got

Some early Buzz my my question is can They're built on top of chat GPT and I Saw the CEO was like uh this is like That whole chat GPT rapper issue that They people were criticizing yeah like If you don't own the llm and the llm Decides that you're business is cool and They're going to do it which you know if You haven't been paying attention Samman's a bit Savvy you know like Pretty strategic guy perhaps uh some People might say Cutthroat some people Might say some some people are even Yes who might well no I mean like Ari Emanuel everybody everybody said Something like even worse like shenali Or something like really trustworthy Kind of comments but you know it's I Think that they they got a serious Problem because I don't think their Search is like that much better than Using chat GPD and then chat GPD is Going to have a search interface so man The difference between asking a question Which is how the default fa chat GPT Works right now yep and just typing a Keyword right now if you go to chat GPT I have it open right now and I were to Open a window um and I just typed in the Word um uh Tokyo Tokyo it now says like Tokyo the capital of Japan and it some Key highlights about Tokyo include and It's just giving me like I didn't say a Query right and when you used to type

Things in it used to be like what would You like to know about Tokyo so already In 4.0 it's assuming I wanted this Information culture landmarks Etc you Know give me a search result for Tokyo Vacation see what it does I wonder if it Would like give me like a bunch of links But you know I think they're going to Start um you know giving you like an Actual search result which would be a Comprehensive search result which is What neighor would do there was um a Search engine in um Korea called neor There's only three markets where and This was part of my inspiration from Mahal back in the day so if I were to Type in Tokyo vacation in neor neighor Did something called comprehensive Search which was not only would they Give you the Blue Links but they would Then have a video section which you can See here they would have a hotel section And they called this I called it Comprehensive search when I met with Them because he said well we want to Give you results that give you Everything and I said so it's like Comprehensive he said yeah so I start I Called the comprehensive when I raised Money from SEO and everything to do Mahalo and my idea was to do this Manually so take the search results that Were there and use Wikipedia style Software to do it manually and you know

We got a little bit of the way there we Got to 10 million in Revenue in search Uh revenue and then Google just cut off Our search traffic so they wouldn't send Any refer we lost 90% of our traffic in The panda they did this deliberately There were a bunch of companies that Were like eHow howto.com there a bunch Of people who were starting to do really Good demand media was the company that Kind of taunted Google and I got really Pissed off at the founder of that Company because he was like we figured Out how to game the Google algorithm and Google was like what excuse me and they Just and he became public company and Then Google was like literally six Months later they did the panda update And cut 80% of the traffic to all these Sites and it was just brutal for Everybody but I think Pera toast yeah But if you know how to rob any Bank in The world the last thing you do is get On Twitter or X and say I know how to Rob every Bank the world you shut up you Don't you don't come on it's gameone Come on people no it's literally the Scene from Good Fellas where they do the Heist and then one guy shows up with his Wife in a fur coat another guy shows up In a new Cadillac and he's like I told You guys not to buy anything and then They all wake up in the trash compactor Exactly I want to go back to the will

Perplexity get open aied with search GPT yes thing because we just posted a Couple interviews on the twist Channel One from Antonio gracius from Valor Equity Partners one from Gavin Baker From a trades Management I was there for this s live Loved them had been waiting for those to Go up because they had two nuggets that I wanted to really talk about and they Were about the value of AI models that Don't have underlying proprietary data Gavin said they're the fastest deputing Asset in human history and Antonio said And I'm I'm I'm speaking about him Describing his firm not anyone else in Any capacity but he said said his firm Thinks that if you don't have Proprietary data you're you're zero yeah And that applies to open AI as well Right because they're doing licensing Deals yeah they don't Have right so I wonder then if the Entire like investment into open AI is Going to yield a search company at the End almost more than an AI model company Well you know if you depends on if you Believe what they say like the idea Would be that they're going to cap their Returns and they just want to get to General Ai and then give it to the world Is kind of the idea so but I don't Believe that I think it's going to Become a commercial I think it's a

Commercial Endeavor always has been Always will be so as a commercial Endeavor I do think providing uh an API Is one Revenue Source providing a Consumer product is another one and Search could be part of that consumer Product sure that will either monetize Through advertising or the um uh the Ability to pay for it I do think open Source wins and I do think the large Data sources win and I think that's Where like Reddit is a good pivot here Reddit had um a heck of a quarter I know Their stock was down but um I I have Seen a bunch of people talking about Reddit having surging traffic which I Thought was like uh fascinating and I Think they're having a hard time I think They're having a very hard time Monetizing their advertising because the Amount of traffic has gone up so much I Also think they have a peculiar cynical Sophisticated user base that doesn't Click on ads as much they do not yes That's correct as opposed to like a Google Search Group which you know or Facebook where you might have like the More Dopey users who don't know what's An ad and what's not whereas like yeah Know Reddit users are going to be the First ones to put ad blockers on to be Cynical about stuff but um their market Cap still cruising around 8 n billion Which I I think that's fair yeah if they

Have a billion in Revenue nine times Revenue is pretty good that's kind of Where we are is that right so tell us About the traffic too yeah so there's an Ad week story that was discussing Essentially you know what's going on With Reddit two data points one Publishers are talking about an influx In traffic from Reddit and the context Here Jason is that the Reddit CEO Steve Huffman has said that it's a real pain In the backside to keep people who don't Pay Reddit for access to its data from Scraping it as much as they can and Google has a deal with Reddit so it's Not a huge shock to see quite a lot of Google traffic and Reddit traffic Intermingling and so forth but Reddit is Getting very large because users learned Over the last couple years to type in a Google Search and then appended Reddit To it yes that would take you to a human Written result as opposed to an SEO slop Bucket and today an AI generated SEO Slop bucket or eight sponsored links so I'm not shocked to see this from Reddit I think the company is insanely Val Valuable but unlocking that value is Going to be very tough I wonder if Really you subsidize the users for using It by just letting them play and then You just make money off of AI deals on The back end but everyone wants Reddit And uh most of them don't want to pay it

Right now which I think is poor form From companies that have last time I Checked effectively unlimited money if You have any red content in your llm you Know um and you're commercializing it Yeah yeah I think you need to pay um I Mean if you had like couple of you know The the the hack around this is if a User had an llm on their desktop and They do a search and their computer then Loads 10 Reddit pages and gives them an Answer that's totally legal by the way What you do on your desktop's your Business so I do think way the way They're going to try to defend this is Hey we we we didn't scrape Reddit but This user initiated a search where they Said tell me the 10 bless places to go In Tokyo and maybe you could point me to Some Reddit conversations and then goes And searches the web scrapes those pages Now if they do it on their server that's One thing if they do it on the desktop Of the user that's another so it's going To get very granular here uh but I do Think Reddit is an incredible asset and I've been thinking about putting a j Trade on for it because I do think it Could get bought for maybe three times What it's worth right now oh yeah There's no way you could pick it up for 15 right Reddit would never sell because They I think they know what they're Sitting on and in that same ad we story

We were talking about a second ago According to data from sem Rush which We've all heard of over the years Between August 23 and April 24 Readership on Reddit effectively tripled Going from 132 million visitors to 346 million monthly visitors now that is Jason for the world of online a hell of A lot of people 120 million is a lot 132 Million is more 346 is a Bonkers number Of total people so I think that it just Shows that the Reddit Google partnership Is going to be lucrative on both sides And frankly now that I'm just talking Aloud with you why the hell wouldn't Google buy Reddit oh maybe they can't You know Lena Khan but like yeah I mean But when the next Administration it Seems like Reed Hoffman told the world Like and and told Pela listen L Khan gotta go um and then Everybody on the right is like L there's not that many lenina con Supporters JD Vance is like the only one That I can think of that's really weird Bed fellows yeah he he I do understand Like the monopolistic like we talked About this like there should be a three Tiered structure yep yep yep over a Trillion dollar company you can't buy Nothing or it's very very restricted uh You can buy something like if it had Very small market share you know mid- Tier you you get some scrutiny uh and

Maybe some rules and then under 250 I'm For freefor all woo yeah I'm I FF like Literally like what do they call it when You play fortnite Battle Royale Battle Royale yes Battle Royale under 250 Billion so like if you know Uber's at 140 and Airbnb is at 100 billion they Can they can f around free-for-all Battle Royale they want to merge they Want to buy door Dash lift this that the Other thing go for it have fun mil Reddit and Uber want to combine forces Who cares that would be a hell who cares Reddit an instacart I don't care lift an In C let them go syn their ship Quantum Computing let's just throw some real Yeah blue apron and Reddit who whatever It it doesn't it does not matter it's Not Material so Battle Royale and then Everybody because who knows what if like A Reddit and a door Dash what if what if Uber Reddit and Airbnb and door Dash Became one company now you got like all These hundreds of millions of users You've got all this on demand activity And the and the combined company's worth 200 billion 250 billion okay now they Can't they have to stop buying stuff They now they get a little scrutiny but Now I got this juggernaut with a common User base it's like whoa you know could Be interesting right yeah I mean you Would have some interesting synergies With the integration of Uber Eats and

And door Dash that would actually be Pretty fascinating from a from a I mean Lift lift could never get into Deliveries at that point that'd be Brutal yeah sorry whenever we do Corporate combination bingo I it's Always a very fun experiment because you Start to imagine these really weird Companies that you could if you wanted To in fact build all right I want to for Everyone out there who's like Jason Alex Stop talking about other things and talk About vure Capital um I have some data For us I want to talk briefly Jason About Europe uh we were all watching the Olympics everyone seen beautiful Beautiful Paris Europe's much larger Than just the City of Lights and there Was a fundraise that really caught my Eye so okay how much interaction have You had with Balton The Venture Capital Firm over the years zero zero okay they Just put together $ 1.3 billion do for Two funds 615 early stage 685 growth C.E Said it was quote the largest ever Combined early stage and growth fund Raise dedicated to European startups and I just kind of want to get what's your Gut reaction to hearing that does it Matter does it not matter it's big Number small number listen uh billion Dollars a big number uh and the European Consumers have money they're well healed These are you know the the challenge of

Course is if these are European Companies going after a European market Is it's a fragmented you know market and So it's like South America in that you You got a 100 million German speakers You got 50 million people in Paris and Paris speakers you got 5 million in Norway 20 million in Sweden 5 million in Ireland I mean these are very disparate Disparate interesting different cultures So sure can you make you know Uber or Airbnb work across all of them you can But it's certainly not as efficient as Making Uber work for 350 million Americans you know or a billion people In India or China so there are Challenges to that space obviously we've Talked about regulation is the other Big Challenge so it's really hard to get a Big outcome in Europe uh and Europe is Stopping a lot of the big outcomes so I Think there's probably less competition For Venture there which means you know Having an inrease in horowits of that Area somebody with a billion dollars or2 Billion dollars to go do some big de Yeah um could be a good bet because I I Think a lot of people are dismissive of That market because of the Restrictions and the the fact that it's A not a monoculture it's it's many Different cultures right but that is Like essentially the conventional wisdom Is that there's too much regulation it's

Too fragmented Etc the things you just Said and I think all those are valid That's why when I saw the Bon number I'm Like huh that's not what I heard so I Pulled some data for us Jason this is Showing total venture capital um Disburse invested in Europe over time And clearly 2001 200 sorry 2021 2022 just Bonkers years cut them out if You look at the pace of this year this Is through Q2 we're actually going to Surpass 2020 in Europe this year that is More bullish than I anticipated and it's Not going to be quite as big as 2023 by Current Norms but we are seeing a lot of Money still flow into European companies And the thing that I can kind of point To is one France and AI is doing a thing But like Spotify is worth 60 70 billion CL is going to go public soon yeah I Think that there there is juice in those Legs I I I think there's more than we Give them credit for sitting in the United States and I wonder what we're Getting wrong because the conventional Wisdom versus the data to me there's a Dissonance there and I don't know what Part of our analysis is is not nailing It it's a very weird Market because if You look at the unicorns uh they were Centralized in the nordics very strange Right like why is that I've heard a lot Of different the theories of why in Europe they're clustered in Sweden you

Know uh Denmark Etc um I don't have an Exact answer for that what people have Told me is that people are the education System the focus level the design uh Skills like product design skills are Very high there and people are very Industrious and it's cold and dark and People work more and they stay in Offices longer now I know this sounds Crazy but if you've Been to Spain or Italy pretty great place to be outside And go have a drink and get some food And hit the beach you been to Norway and Sweden freaking cold yeah and you want To go in and get some soup uh so I I do Think climate as crazy as that sounds And lifestyle is a driver now you know When you look and you talk about San Francisco versus New York and Miami Specifically one of the thing I've heard From Venture capitalists in my career And remember I started in New York as The silic conal reporter covering a Trade I had started a trade publication Specifically about that market yeah was New York's just too much damn fun um and You know there's a reason to leave the Office at 600 or 7:00 because you could Go to a really great restaurant and go To a club after then show up for work at 10:00 as opposed to working from 9il 11:00 p.m. in San Francisco in the Bay Area as you know you know if you're in Palo Alto and you try to get food at 10

O'clock you're going You're I mean In-N-Out Burger closes at 10 o'clock Like the fast food restaurants are Closed by 11 o'clock by by 9 I mean p Rolls up the sidewalks at 7:30 p.m. like You're done Sunnyvale downtown Sunnyvale Is like nine buildings on one street Like yes I've spent a lot of time there There's nothing going on it is it is Work or sit under basically right you Know you can just either you're going to Go do fentel on Turk or you gonna work At Google what are the other very Similar life trajectories in terms of Intellectual output um yes I do want to Sorry I couldn't resist but anyway I do Think that I do think that's part of it In Europe is you know if you are trying To get and this is one of the themes That you and I have been working on Related to this sort of hacking Capitalism is like who actually wants to Work work hard who values lifestyle who Lives to work and who works to live I Can tell you the assistance that we have In Manila in a you know from Athena go To Athena wild.com get a month off or Something like that you know you go to You talk work with those folks yeah they Are like K Nikki and rage on our team Are like I need more work can I do more Work thank you sir yes sir I mean it's Like literally being in the 1950s like In terms of like as an employer where

People are like thrilled to have the job Now you Ju suppose that with Canadians Us workers European workers people in Europe are like I need 8 weeks off I Need six weeks off like I'm I'm I'm not And I don't want to check my email after 5:00 like there's a law in Europe and I Don't know which countries are actually Doing this if it ever got passed in the EU but there were passing laws and I Believe France is the first country to Do it employers cannot require employees To check their email on the weekend or Answer the phones or whatever in other Words when you're off the clock you're Off the clock it's reasonable but it's Also reasonable that people who want to Advance their career could work on the Weekends which is what I told one of our Researchers recently I was like yeah do You take this job seriously and if you Do I if I was you I'd do two hours every Saturday or Sunday checking your email And checking in with all the founders Who are in your portfolio because you Only have 25 and in two hours you could Email you know half of them this weekend And half next weekend and that's how you Would have an edge on other Venture Capitalists in our firm and other our Firm but have an advantage over other Firms an hour on Sunday's High leverage Output you can get so much done um just On the we have to go away in a second

But I'm going to just squeeze this in on Your points about uh climate and culture The reason why in the United States Coffee Culture has such a Seattle basis To it is because it sucks to live there Cuz it's raining all the time and you Need a mid-grade stimulant to do Anything and I say this as a guy from The Pacific Northwest I say it with love And then going back to your point about The the nordics and their blistering Climate in the cold versus hot Direction Um why is there so much amazing heavy And death metal from that area it's Because they are sad and they are drunk And they are in the basement and they Have a guitar and good music flows out Of it so you you can see connections I'll just say though again talk about France it is the AI Hub of Europe and I Some other data from pittsbur in front Of me here that it is Raising far more Than even Israeli compan In terms of the total AI focused Capital Flowing into it so on Continental Europe Ming Israel in there as pitchbook does It's um it's the leader so something's Going on you know there someone's Goingon to be slightly WR here and I'm Curious uh but we got to go away friends And family uh we are back we are doing News we have lots to talk about the World is so interesting and now we'll Take one question from the audience

Maybe two Bobby V has a question for Jason I'm going to just paraphrase this For you a little bit given the Conversation that we had would you Invest any of your own personal money Into an AI modelish company and if so Which one is your favorite I definitely Would not I think because they're Overvalued um and I think the winner is Going to be open source I would invest In a company like hugging face or Somebody who built support tools and a Stack around an open source project so If somebody took L from Facebook and They said hey J Cal I want to come to The accelerator here's my idea I take And I'm going to fine-tune it and build A collection of Tools around it for People who are working in uh audio and Video uh or people who are working uh With accounting or you know and build Some sort of open- source extension to It and hosting product or whatever yeah Sure maybe something that was picks and Tools and shovels based upon an open Source product in a language model I Would do something like that I also Think consulting firms like if you There's two ways to make money in the World Equity value Alex you know we talk About stocks going public and getting Bought and Lena Khan's uh reign of Terror on the Venture industry but then There's another thing it's called Cash

Flow cash flowing businesses if you're Three really smart cats in you know and Have the ability to fine two in a Language modile Etc starting a Services Firm where you charge ungodly amounts of Money and you have 10 developers in Ukraine India offshore wherever that Cost you $35 000 a year each and they're Crushing it and you're paying them twice What they got paid at their job locally You could go start charging you know for A multi-million dollar engagements to Work with companies that are trying to Figure out how to deploy and implement The software and that's picks and Shovels there was a company called Razer Fish my friend Jeff and Craig started Yes uh in New York and there was another One agency.com like those companies for Five years agency businesses they wound Up being bought by the larger agencies Like bbdo or whatever like uh those Giant rollups are in the advertising Business bus mhm th those companies were Charging $250,000 to plan people's websites and Then they would charge 5 to $25 million To build their websites Philip Kaplan Talked about this in fed companies yeah Yes so there just a huge huge Opportunity there uh the thing I'm GNA Throw in there is that if you ever get Tired of me and and ask me to not keep Coming on the show um I'm just gonna go

Ghost right for VC's that's my version Of that uh you could do it yeah I think They would pay a lot of money I I always Wonder who writes Aaron from Aron Ley Box his tweets and he told me he does And I was like no way I believe that Because no he's got to have a team There's some group of people in a room Helping him brainstorm them he's just Too good anyone else either that or he Should quit and be a comedian anyone Else I would agree with you but Aon Levy I think is actually um I think he's that Guy I I just think he's he smart and Nice and I think that combination plays Well on social media all right we got to Get out of here we got to go be back Everybody more news coming time byebye