Edward Norton is one of the most Recognizable actors of his generation You know him from films like Glass Onion Fight Club and The Grand Budapest Hotel But what you may not know is that he's Also a successful Tech investor and Entrepreneur he was an early investor in AI data company keno and he co-founded Both media measurement firm Edo and Early crowdfunding platform crowdrise He's here with us now to talk about his Latest Venture board presentation Software startup Z Edward thank you so Much for being here pleasure yeah thanks For having me so let's start with the Basics what is z z um we we we call it Death to the board deck um because I Think um well the the the quickest way To say it is that this is a this is a Cloud-based uh platform for companies And nonprofit organizations to to put Together their board meeting Materials um in a way that's just Massively more Dynamic and efficient and Um and creates positive feedback loops On the board experience that I I should Say like those of us who started this And put it together really felt Ourselves in our own experiences Starting companies and dealing with Boards and then being on boards Ourselves that the that the dynamic of Boards was a really broken one it was a Very it was sort of this elephant in the
Room that nobody was dealing with a very Negative Dynamics um often and an Enormous amount of wasted time on the Side of companies and management teams Um and we just thought we thought you Know we thought that this was something That we actually knew how to address um What made you think that because we'd We'd really lived it and I you know it's Funny you and I were talking earlier About like why do things right like what Uh you were talking about efficiency and I but I I for me The things that I can really lean into Need to come from be rooted in something I've experienced you know and I'm I'm an Actor and a filmmaker and stuff but I I've been serving on corporate and Nonprofit boards for 30 years right and I've started a couple companies and had Really good board experiences and really Bad board Experiences and my partners and I really at one point we talking and Meditating on why does why is this so Bad Why is this something this and we Started talking to other people what did You come up With I'll tell you I think it has to do With the fact That it it's it's how the tone gets set If you think about if you think about a Board it is often composed of people who
Have invested money in a company or made Big donations like an Institutional Foundation that makes a big donation to A conservation organization right they Skin in the game they have skin in the Game but really really what's happening Is monitoring and and protecting the Investment right but if you set yourself Into a role psychologically within Organization that you're there to Monitor them or to protect your Investment you're not creating what I Would call like a positive reciprocity Right I think a company should be able To expect that a board member a company Has obligations to shareholders and to Board members and to things like that There's a certain kind of governance to It but but there's too too rarely is There a real sense of reciprocal Obligation to further the interests of The company or to be an A positive Extension of the company or the Organization it's a defensive posture Defensive posture and and then you get Into underlying unstated resentments um Sense of antagonism sense of you know What am I going to share what I not Going to share it you're thinking about Narrative and how you're going to Position it and and and in a lot of ways I think is a deeper conversation how do Founders and entrepreneurs and Organization Builders social
Entrepreneurs too H how do you set the Tone of what you want out of a board From the beginning and that's that's a That's a big conversation and how do you Establish the Rules of Engagement in Some sense but we definitely noticed That that it was a very toxic Dynamic That companies essentially say hey we're Going pencils down to prepare for this Meeting that you know that the idea that In 2023 we're building 93 page PDFs in Slide the PDFs of Doom um you know and Everybody's had that experience they get The they get the board materials less Than 48 hours before you're expected to Read this thing you do your job and get Through the 93 page PDF or whatever and Then you get there and what happens it Gets narrated to you literally the same Thing gets put up the slide gets moved Through and it gets read to you and you Sit there just going like this is Disaster right we're not getting Anything done and we vote on minutes and We vote on employee stock option pools And like hours and hours and hours go by And we and we really thought we can we Can Crush that down make it easier on All sides and um and bring the best of What what kind of always on cloud-based Platforms can do um so so we we've we've Gotten a tremendous response to it like People who are using it are saying that Within one or two rounds of their board
Meeting That they that they'll never go back and That people are saying this is this is Transforming actually the quality of the Experience there's a quantitative value We're trying to fix which is like Efficiency of time yeah and for Everybody but but there is a qualitative Dividend that we want to generate out of It in terms of in terms of Engendering um a more positive use of That time um in in part by the way it's Built and and look you know I we're in This era um you know in our adult lives If you ran a company you know uh 15 Years ago and you had to manage your Stock certificates you dealt with law Firms and Excel spreadsheets for cap Table management and today there's Carta And other great cloudbased platforms That allow for this business boring Business governance you know even DocuSign or so many things that we did On paper less than 20 years ago even We're doing in the cloud we're doing in These platforms we really we really felt That this was in that category of kind Of business tools that take up an Important part of corporate governance And just defize it in a massive way Right and and um and I think that I Think I think Boards boards board governance and board Process was sort of sitting there you
Know it's part of everybody's life four To eight times a year in any Organization it's the DMV it's literally the DMV and nobody Nobody's nobody feels POS about it but No one was doing anything about it and And we and and we you know and someone Said to me one time like what do you Care why do you why do you want to build A business software company to deal with Board governs I like well because I live Because I'm I experience it it t it eats Up my time like I'm not liking this like You know and I when it comes to nonprofit Organizations like we our our crowdrise We built crowdrise into this in this Company I think when you can see what You can do for driven Organizations that are full of people Who could be doing lots of other things And making money you know money in lots Of um other fields and they're Committing themselves to purpose-driven Work you want organ it feels great to Help organizations like that so on the n On the nonprofit side we we we had that That connectivity from our experience at Crowdrise of really liking the idea of Helping nonprofit organizations yeah Kind of sort of to this end one of the Things about Zex marketing I found Really interesting is this idea that Over time all these things have changed
Which is exactly what you're saying but Board meetings have been resistant to That change what do you think it is Nobody likes the DMV but we're but we Keep going back to it anyway so why do You think board meetings were just sort Of sitting there waiting for you waiting For that kind of innovation Ina inertia Is a strange thing it's you know Um sometimes it's that thing where you Say Like people and organizations tend to Try to deal with the Urgent demands of The day right and and one could make the Argument that something can be a pain Point like a like board meetings and the Way you prepare for them and the way the Presentations are done and what the Nature of the conversation is you go Through it and it's never great but you Live with it it's like a manageable Disease right it's not it's not killing You but it's it's like a manageable Disease that you've learned to just sort Of be numb to and I and I think um you Know it it it probably doesn't stack Rank way up at the top of like your Organization's urgent priorities right But if it can be fixed easily you go Hell yeah like thank you oh my god thank You right um and and so sometimes I Think someone just needs to lean in to To that component I mean think about the Fact that think about how many things we
Do really efficiently in a mobile Configuration now we we pay for stuff we Buy stuff we we transact in all kinds of Ways with so much efficiency right we Watch all these things and think about The just this is this is the Right Audience for this kind of um Granularity we talk about being wonky But but like think about the fact that Let's say you're a capital manager let's Say you're someone who manages capital And professionally you sit you know a Half a dozen board meetings a week or Something like that right let's say you Manage portfolio companies and you're on A lot of boards right like employee Stock option pool decisions you know Allocations and minutes approve of Minutes right I would say on average in The board meeting you might suck up 45 Minutes to an hour dealing with those Stuff that's something you ought to be Able to read about and in the platform Say I I approve right there is nothing That requires conversation that should All be able to be done offline in Advance of the meeting and so should Query right like why shouldn't you be Able to query management as you read and Get get the whole process of kind of Natural query refined so by the time you All get there you're having aers about The forward agenda not like the numbers Andu like that and there's no reason in
This day and age with the with the Dynamism of the tools we're able to Build that you shouldn't be able to Handle a lot of that stuff and Advance Offline so I I think you could say at Minimum we're stripping away a lot of That that drudgery um we're we're trying To strip away the drudgery that that Makes everybody want to you know punch Themselves in the face when they're um You know anticipating and even going Through board meetings so what are you Doing at maximum Then at maximum at maximum yeah what's Maximum what's the what's the long-term Ambition can board meetings be not Terrible I tried to yeah like I tried to I was trying to say fun I was trying to Say fun can board meetings be fun yeah I I think they can be they they ought to Be things that people leave saying that Was really really good that was Constructive that was have you left a Board meeting and said that was really Really good what was it like um it was Short and it was focused on on it was it Assumed it assumed that people had the Professionalism and the facility to Absorb the the reporting that needed to Be reported and the conversation was all About what can the people around this Table do in the next three months to Advance critical agendas right and it And it and and I think um you know like
A board should be an Asset a board should be an asset to an Organization not a hall monitor not a Hall monitor yes and and that's and I Think if if if anybody who gets even With a single board member when people Get that experience of going holy crap This is like force multiplication this Is Le this is it's such a good feeling It really is like wow like we've got It's mentorship it's it's expertise it's Like capacity to pick up the phone and Efficiently do things you know and like If you're not getting that kind of I Think organizations that don't have a Sensation that a that a large percentage Of their board is is kind of the wind Under their sales or is helping them Accelerate that's that's then Something's wrong like it it shouldn't All be about um we're we're minding the Store you know now for you personally Why Tech of all the things you could be Doing in your spare time um you know It's funny I we're in the era of tech so People kind of use it as a catchall I I Actually I actually don't relate to the Things I've done in an entrepreneurial Sense in the category of tech per se I Think of them As like because you know like crowdrise Was really Innovative in terms of social Fundraising for nonprofit organizations Found it in 2010 yeah we we were we a
Were we a were we a you know a were we Bragging about our Tech like not not Particular we did a really we did some Great user interface in a way we gave You a great experience and we figured Out some cool stuff on payments figured Out how to make it safe yeah yeah and And dealing with compliance with Nonprofit orgs and tax structure and all That but those are puzzles more than um That's not like true like large language Model AI right like that we we weren't Innovating in since we were solving a Problem we were we were facilitating and And helping figure out like a new kind Of of um of of mechanism for people to Do Grassroots activism right um but but I think some things I've been involved With do involve what I would call Sophisticated Tech um how do you define That well what Keno was doing in terms Of application long before chat gbt Keno's work on large language model AI Application to financial Market data was You know Best in Class and it wasn't Hallucinating it wasn't undisciplined it And um my partner Daniel who founded Ken Show and then we we built Edo uh a media Um media measurement and analytics Company it really is one of a true Leading uh academic innov you know Innovator philosopher and and you know Applied entrepreneur in large language Model Ai and um this is Daniel Nadler
Who founded Ken show and founded Edo With me and and now has founded this Incredible um large language model AI Application for health uh medical Research called open evidence which I Really encourage you and everyone else To check out I think um if you imagine The capacities of chat GPT but applied To the incredibly Important uh uh problem of how do people Keep up with the pace of published Medical research and having an AI that's Capable of reading read has read all Published medical research to date and Is Reading in real time all published Medical research so that clinicians are Able to fact check themselves through Plain language query on in a way that is TR truly unprecedented um that's you Know that's that's real that gets you Excited about that Lial Because because I think Um I Think at a it's best what what I think Is really promising about AI is not the Replacement of people at all but Actually the enhancement of our own Capabilities um the acceleration of our Own capabilities my friend uh cut going Over to the AR my friend Bennett Miller Who's one of the great a great filmmaker You know has made many Academy nominated Films and he just did um at Larry Gagan's Gallery did the an art show of
Photographs that he created using Dolly Um the the art AI platform if you looked At that Show I think it was it was it was Relevant and indicative of more than Just what AI might do in art um I Thought it was it it indicated what AI Can be in general which is to say AI did Not create these images it was this Obedient servant that let a great artist Like Bennett compose and curate Images um through thousands and Thousands of Iterations that That that are expressions of his mind And of his intent and completely Singular to him completely singular to Him compositionally tonally in terms of The contrast terms of the subject matter In terms of the themes in terms of the The AI in no way Replaced or or made Bennett Miller lazy I think he would tell you it was one of The most thrilling artistic experiences He's had in terms of his capacity to Realize what was in his head in this Fluid way um and I think that there will Be lots of replications of that across Different contexts and different fields Where what we're actually finding is That what we're actually finding is that It's it's enhancing our own capacities More than it is um replacing totally and
Wholesale things and and you see it's It's interesting because now we have This moment you have writers and actors Striking and worried about things like AI I I and I I understand that I think It's it's really important that the work That people Do how that's ingested into learning Models and used to create other things Is a very very very complicated question And really does it is the right moment To negotiate these things like I Actually think some people say like why Now it's like yeah it's so what makes Now the right moment well there's two Things one one is that the technology The technology is hitting this kind of This limal Edge where Suddenly amazing things are amazing Things artistically are being generated Like benett Miller right and it points It points to this to this now very like Um bracing and kind of thrilling moment Of uncertainty of it's so good yeah how Good can it be and you know does it Fully wipe away the human input or not I Really don't think so I really don't Think so I think that I think that great Work on a creative Level um will be fueled by human Imagination and human empathy and I Think that and I think that these things Will largely be to be seen as tools um Much like CGI right computer Graphics
Didn't ruin photography right um or make Cinematography irrelevant but but I also Think the the truth is um the business Landscape of media is changing right now A lot and we see that at what we're Doing at Edo we sit right in the center Of it because because um Compensation structures with artistic Unions you know collective bargaining Agreements were based on they were based On an understanding of what the Long-term ultimate financial performance Through ancillary licensing of content The long shelf life of catalog content Right it was an agreement that said yes Artists should participate in the full Lifetime value of their Product when the streamers came along They said well we just put it in house It doesn't get relicensed so it's it's Sort of a buyout Arrangement and so they Got around sort of this idea of long Involvment now all content I think what We're going to see very soon is that There is no linear television at all Everything is Everything everywhere all At once it's on demand entirely Everything everywhere all at once yeah It is we are heading into everything Everywhere all at once in terms of Content our our kids will never Understand why anyone tried to line up Their schedule around the viewing of Something they will always expect that
They can watch whatever they want when They want to the big seismic shift is That people are realizing it can't all Be through subscription and so that's Why all the streaming platforms are Moving to add supported models and when When Bob Iger is saying add supported Streaming is going to be one of the Biggest growth centers for Disney people Should pay attention because what it Means really in my opinion is there will Be no more linear television within five Years within five years yeah no question In my mind like there will be no live Sports will be through streaming live Con anything live will still be through The streaming platforms you will stream On demand whatever you want and if you Don't want to pay for premium sub ad Free you'll just watch it with ads Network television ad supported network Television is going to be in an ond Demand context and what that means is Suddenly Netflix is one of the largest Television ad supported networks in History and that means that's why it has To be negotiated now because the because It means whole different Revenue Structure is about to come and and the Artists are right to say we have to Figure that out now because because it's On the it's on the cusp so I I actually Think it's a very very important moment The crazy thing is where I really stand
With the unions on this is that the pie Is about to get bigger anyone who says To P like I I'll make a prediction that I bet Netflix as it becomes a fully ad Supported As it becomes a fully ad Supported Network in addition to its Subscription it will it will double its Market cap like it will double its Market cap okay I bet Netflix's Netflix's market cap will go higher than Anybody thinks it's going to go when People realize how effective an Advertising platform that company is Going to become like I think it's going To become one of the most powerful Advertising television networks ever in History and and that alone is going to Be like it's it's going to and and and That's why that's why I do think it's Kind of baloney when you look at what The writer Guild and the Director's Guild and the actor's guild are actually Negotiating for it's like Point0 per you know it's tiny Percentages of that long-term Revenue Those platforms those companies they Know what's coming Bob Iger has Literally said it he when a guy who's Says I'm not an ad in guy says ad Supported streaming is about to become One of the biggest growth centers of Disney you people should be paying Attention because what it means is
They're fully aware of how lucrative and Valuable these platforms that they've Built are once you build in a classic Network ad supported model especially Because it will be the power of Television with all the identity data Under it that digital has so you Basically have the grand it of targeting That you get with Facebook and Google But with Disney's content and and that's Going to be Insane tell you it is happening right Now like and Disney they are really good At it really really good at it we work With them at Edo and and I think you Will you will see you will see that Actually Netflix and Disney and Companies like that they are not just Like talking their book they are going To be able to deliver an unbelievably Potent Mix of content combined with incred Granularity of tarting because of the The the streaming platforms and when you Marry that up with with free tiers that You can get that content and ads I I Think it's going to command it's going To command Premiums that were associated with Digital and stuff in the past and it's Going to it's going to be a whole new Massive windfall for these companies and I think and I think that's why In some ways I actually think the issue
Of the moment for the artistic unions is Not AI I I think that's a little bit of A boogeyman then what is it it's it's What's about to happen in the revenue Structure on content through ad Supported models that's going to be a Huge windfall and that that's why the Agreements need to be recalibrated right Now for what is the artistic unions what Are the artistic trade unions share of The because the new lifetime value of Content made by streamers is about to Change completely and I think so it's It's the right moment and they're Actually right it's it's um you know I I I think I think um they're not asking in My opinion for anything that's Crazy Edward Norton we have to leave it There I wish we didn't have to but thank You so so much we actually talked about Two more than one thing get double the Time I should get double oh thank you I Appre I appreciate I appreciate that Edward thank you so pleasure
